Incoming Calls, NOT!

[christcorp]

That's because the good old fashioned land line phone and cell phone service have an internal network. Coast to coast it's all the same network. Whether it's Centurylink, Verizon (Landline), ATT, etc... they use the same system. They hand off to each other seamlessly. Voip relies on the internet. It relies on many different internet providers; different internet technologies; etc... That isn't voip's fault. Now, ask yourself, why Ma'Bell and cell service costs 5X more than voip? Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. People who come to voip, do so initially to save money. Well, you can't have the quality and reliability of a closed network at internet prices. Sorry, but it can't happen.

And you're right, voip probably won't become the phone service of the masses. But that's not voip's fault. It's the consumer's fault. It's their ignorance. You don't buy a ford focus as your only car if you've got a family of 6. You also don't buy it for hauling firewood out of the forest. I will say, if a person had internet access, hooked up their voip adapter and NO COMPUTERS or ANYTHING...... Just the internet and voip adapter..... I'd give you a 99.9% chance of perfect success. But then again, that's what a traditional landline is; isn't it. 1 service and 1 use.

So; why do you expect the same type of service? Shared network vs dedicated network and $10-$15 per month vs $50-$60 per month.

[christcorp]

I did some research in the voipo forums for similar issues concerning firewalls, DMZ, etc... Here's one that sort of even makes my point.
http://forums.voipo.com/archive/index.php/t-1534.html?

The post in particular is:

olaf wrote:
07-24-2009, 10:16 AM
I had an issue yesterday when my PAPT2 failed to reregister after I rebooted my router. I submitted a ticket, the response was prompt, and they enabled a STUN server and set NAT keep-alive packets to be sent every 5 minutes to help prevent the problem from happening again. They also recommended that I disable the SPI firewall on my router because it may cause intermittent problems, even if it seems to be working. I rebooted the router again today, and when the PAPT2 again failed to register (with the SPI firewall still on), I experimented a bit with putting the PAPT2 in a DMZ vs. turning off the firewall completely. As far as I could tell, the DMZ did not let it reregister, but shutting the firewall off did.

I'm not crazy about leaving the firewall off, but I suppose I could use an iptables-based firewall instead of the SPI firewall (I am using DD-WRT firmware). I'm just wondering if others out there have thoughts & experience on the pros & cons of an SPI firewall and other router security measures while using VOIP.

Thanks.

This problem has nothing to do with this customer's problem. But I wanted to point out that putting something in the DMZ isn't TOTALLY bypassing the SPI firewall. This individual found that out first hand.

[wingsohot]

So; why do you expect the same type of service? Shared network vs dedicated network and $10-$15 per month vs $50-$60 per month.

You're also forgeting that the $50-$60 range for cell is also including, not only voice, but text and data. If VoIP service was able to offer text and data, the cost would almost be the same anyway.

[christcorp]

So; why do you expect the same type of service? Shared network vs dedicated network and $10-$15 per month vs $50-$60 per month.

You're also forgeting that the $50-$60 range for cell is also including, not only voice, but text and data. If VoIP service was able to offer text and data, the cost would almost be the same anyway.

Ummmm...... Not trying to dog you, but how can Voip offer you "Data", when "DATA is REQUIRED to make voip work" Voip can't offer Data. Physically it's impossible and totally illogical. That's like saying a computer should offer internet service.

However; you do bring up a very logical evolution. Now, with 4g LTE capabilities, cellular systems could technically put both Cable and DSL broadband services out of business. Unfortunately, it's a cost issue. Cell phones don't offer unlimited data. And trying to share your cellular data with your home computers is too expensive. And having a separate cell plan for each person is also too expensive. I.e. My existing unlimited data (Grandfathered); limited voice minutes; limited text plan; costs about $60-$70 a month. For both, my wife and me, that would be about $140 a month. If we used this replace home internet and thus voip, we'd have to add more voice minutes. Plus; while we have unlimited data on the phone, there is a cap for tethering to a laptop/desktop. It's not unlimited. PLUS, the latency isn't that great, so if you are into gaming or other time sensitive activities, it sucks. Although, with the newer LTE 4G it's definitely much better. Plus, you can't leave things connected 24/7 if you need to take your phone with you and use it somewhere else. So technically; cell phones can definitely put DSL, Cable broadband, Ma'Bell phone, and voip out of business. But because of cost and a few limitations, that's a few years off.

But voip can't "OFFER" text and data. Can a fax machine OFFER Dial Tone Texting is designed for mobile use. It's quick and simple. Limited number of character. No attachments. You need data for voip to work. If you are at home and have a data connection, you can text to people with cell phones. Go to verizonwireless.com and you can text online all you want. But again; voip can't offer text and data. It's not physically possible or even practical. If you want to compare prices, compare the $50-$60 monthly Ma'Bell Land Line phone with voip. You can't compare voip with a cell phone. They serve 2 totally different purposes. Landline phones cost 5X more, because of the dedicated network and overhead costs. Voip doesn't cost as much, because it doesn't have ANY NETWORK. It uses the "Internet Network" which is already available. Just like Fax doesn't have it's own network, it uses an existing landline network. (Hence, why it took a long time to get a standard for faxing). Many different fax companies trying to talk to each other. Well voip has all these different ISP's with different backhauls, connecting to different gateways, eventually connecting to the Ma'Bell landline service. You will have difficulties. That's why you pay so much for landline service.

If you are expecting the same quality and reliability and ease of use from Voip that you get from a land line, then you are naive, and probably should go back to paying your $50-$60 a month for phone and long distance service. Now, if you are willing to become educated, you can come to within 90-95% of the quality/reliability of a land line. If you don't want to learn anything, and you just want simple plug and play like wingsohot wants, then you'll probably have a 90% chance of having really good voice service. Being you want just plug and play, chances are you don't have anything more than a real basic home network. And there's a good chance your ISP is totally compatible. But there's also a chance that you can fall into the 10% who do have issues. I go to forums specifically about my ISP. There are some in the country, depending where they live, where they are getting 200+ms hops in their internet connection. That doesn't mean much to many here, but I can tell you right now that that will cause all sorts of quality issues with VOIP. Is this Voip's problem? No. But the customer doesn't know that. They aren't gamers, so they don't notice those long ping times in between hops. But voip does. And of course this ignorant person will say that voip sucks. Even though it has absolutely nothing to do with voip.

Bottom line: 90%+ of voip customers are going to have a real decent experience. They will realize that the quality probably isn't 100% as good as landlines, BUT, they will notice that they get TONS more features and capabilities, at 1/5th the cost of a landline, and they will live with the tradeoff and be very happy. The other 10% have a choice. Some will learn that they can make voip work for them and they will make the changes needed. Some won't become educated, they'll blame the voip provider, they'll move to another voip provider that works, and this will be their rationalization that the previous voip provider sucked. "They didn't suck, the individual was ignorant, but it helps them rationalize". Then, there will be a small amount who's internet provider simply is not compatible. Some manipulate ports and data. (Yes, they DON'T WANT YOU TO HAVE VOIP). Some simply have old crap equipment and it can't operate clean/fast enough. These people simply have no real option. But sorry; a Focus CAN'T have the same level of quality as a Cadillac. Not for the price difference. It's naive to believe otherwise. And a focus can't have the same capabilities as a pickup truck. Again; naive. Compare apples to apples. Voip is NOT landline, landlines are NOT cellular, and Cellular is NOT voip. When people realize that they are different; have different purposes; use different technologies; have different pros/cons; then they will realize the true potential. In the future, when old people who won't change die off, and fax machines and other dialup type users realize that technology is no longer needed; landlines will no longer exist. It will be Cellular and some sort of voip.